WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

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Alxj64
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WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by Alxj64 »

This is kind of an essay, so hang with me folks. I've a been into Miltary vehicles since before I could drive. I worked at a small county airport in highschool that had an M37 that was in poor shape. I took it upon myself to keep the truck running and operating and in overall operable condition while I was working there up until going away to college. The first summer home from college I heard that the airport obtained new equipment and that the older things were for sale so I went through the necessary means and purchased the truck in 2003 (ya'll can do the math on my age). The truck lived on the family farm and was used by myself and college friends to haul people and coolers around on camping trips. The M37 was great. Everyone loved it and it was fully enjoyed. Now, stepping back a minute, when I was 16 and first started working on the M37, a patron of the airport brought me a stack of old MVPA magazines, and a few parts catalogs such as Boyce Equipment. On the back of one of the MVPA issues was a picture of a WC53 Carryall. I still remember the rush I got looking at the truck. I can remember laying the magazine on the counter at the airport and just staring at the picture of the WC53 and daydreaming about having the truck and driving it to highschool and how cool it was. In college I had found one local to me that was in BAD shape, missing both the rear gates, and a lot of rust and additionally the seller wanted to tradefor my running, driving, fully complete except for soft top M37, plus a bunch of cash . I couldn't bring myself to make the trade so I kept looking. I got into the Jeep Rock Crawling scene for a while and that took my mind off of the search WC53 for a few years and I was very content, and still am with that particular hobby especially considering my Jeep resembles farm equipment in terms of tire size and gear reduction more than it does a Jeep.

So back this past Feb. my wife and I are watching a TV show on the Travel Channel about vintage campers and vintage RVs. My parents are big into the camping scene and my wife has always mentioned wanting a camper. She is kind of "Gypsy-like" in terms of her style and tastes. That being the case, she proclaims that she wants a Vintage airstream to restore and modify into her liking. I agree that would be really neat and that we should do it. She suggests then that it would be neat to tow it with something like my M37, which was still living at the farm (3 hours from my current home) but being a slight bit neglected and beginning to show it. Some how, something sparked in my head. I reminded her of the old truck I swore I would buy one day. I pulled up pictures, and showed her and said "This.. this is what I want to own and this would be amazing towing the Airstream camper". She says " I Love it! Find one!" So the search began once again.

I had spent years previously searching for one that I could afford but was enough together to meet my skill level to repair and restore; even with plans of buying one and storing it until I could have a place and money to work on it. Now, my needs had narrowed even further. I couldn't simply buy any WC53, (not like they are easy to find anyways) but now, for the sake of the respect of the machines they are and their scarcity, I needed to find something that I would not be doing a grave misfortune to by making mechanical changes to now fit the needs of towing the airstream trailer. I knew better than to find something mostly complete and then "hack" it up for my mechanical necessities. I knew that the original trucks would not have the power to move itself and a camper on the highway at a safe speed, nor steer and stop such a combination. So I began my search for a shell of truck. I was prepared to find and repare the most delapidated and corroded shell, so long as there was enough original truck left for me to have sufficent reference points to build it back to. So one would think that I would be much less likely to find something to meet these stricter needs. However, not the case as within a two week window I stumbled across a similar build of a WC53 on the SteelSoldiers forum. I sent the owner a message asking if he knew of any other trucks as he said that when he was looking for his, he stumbled across a few that were squirrled away in barns and sheds. His response was a simple, "No, but I will sell you mine". I was befuddled and shocked but also expecting the price to be beyond my budget for a "project".

I spoke with the owner. He has been around the MV world a bit and still is. He had purchased a WC53 in similar condition to what I was searching for myself with similar intentions, but rather as a trail riding truck rather than a quazi highway creature. His truck was missing an engine, and most of the drivetrain. However, he had instead done as many of the Civilian Power Wagon guys had done and installed a 4bt, and slightly more modern drivetrain. The body work on the truck was okay but left a good bit to be desired. He purchased the truck in 2005 and by 2010 was driving it quite frequently. However, a wreckless text messaging driver decided that he would rather not pay attention to the road ahead of him and struck the back of the Carryall. The Carryall was traveling at 60 mph, and the driver that struck him was doing 85, and was driving a lifted 1/2 ton Chevy truck. Needless to say the lifted truck missed the rear bumper and hitch of the WC53 and instead clean sheared the rear body mounts and crushed the rear of the WC 13", and wrinked the sides of the body, etc. The owner of the WC53 was devestated, and ofcourse, the way insurance companys work these days, played games with him for 2 years before a final settlement was made. At this point, the owner (Lee) was too hearbroken from looking at his smashed truck sitting in the back of his garage for 2 years and had desires to build something else. It was at this point that I just so happened to luck into contacting him at exactly the right time. We traded calls and emails and came to an agreement that was astoundingly fair on my part. In order to come up with the funds I sold my M37, which was a sad day for me as it and I had some great times and many memories with many friends. However, I was doing it no justice letting it deteriorate at the farm and the new owner loves the truck and is completely restoring it back to original, down to every detail.

So, I had to wait until May for Lee to remove his modernized drivetrain, axles and all from his WC53. In our dealings I agreed to buy a WC56 frame and axles that was in Conneticut, have it transported to Virginia, and then I left from Virginia with that rolling chassis and drove to Louisiana, swapped the rolling chassis frame under the emptied out, smashed carryall, and then came back home to Virginia leaving the WC56 frame behind. 2,500 miles in 3.5 days just to retrieve the truck, but it was worth it. Also, in the meantime, my wife managed to find and purchase a 1968 Airstream camper. It also needs a LOT of work.

So, I now have my project I have been dreaming of. Its not an original restoration, but at this point there is a lot of original missing from the truck. That being the case, I know I may step on some toes on this forum as a lot of folks don't care for the changes made to the trucks when they are "resto-modded. However, I can offer a mild justification. The truck will be kept quite aesthetically as close to original as possible. The driveline modifications will be for safety and performance so that I can drive the truck in the area I live in. Where I live, it is an Interstate drive to get across the larger bodies of water so the truck MUST be able to travel at modern highway speeds. This being the case, the truck will travel many places, and be enjoyed by many more people than just myself and the individuals directly associated with the Military vehicle world. Which isn't that the point, to enjoy the truck and share it rather than keep it locked away until the occasional show? The truck will also get a few creature comforts but I am planning on keeping the bodylines the same, and even the paint color as an OD Green or mild variation of it. Lee kept a good deal of the front body parts so those I am having to source on my own pieces as I go.

I guess pictures will finish up this very long post.

As I picked up the truck in Lousiana. We hauled it across the longest bridge in the US when leaving New Orleans.
Image

Condition of the rear of the truck when I got it home... ie, starting point.
Image

Stripped the interior and such out. Lee had put a metal floor in the truck as it was missing a lot of the hardware for the wooden floor.
Image

After spending time with a porta power, I was able to get a good bit of the truck back round again. Sadly the gate and lower cross member are so full of old steel and bondo that there isn't enough of it left for me to straighten it out. I am going to have to start from scratch I believe.
Image

Again, please don't be offended that I am not doing a by the numbers restoration on this truck. I know that is something really important to a lot of folks but atleast the truck was saved from being cut into pieces and parted out. The serial number has been posted in the sticky thread already. I'm currently trying to get information from the previous owner to track down as much of the history of this truck as I can.
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SlyGareth
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by SlyGareth »

I guess it'll just be a powerwagon of some sort when you are done with it...kinda sad considering carry-alls are somewhat rare. Perhaps you'd be better off with a power giant to resto-rod.
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by Alxj64 »

SlyGareth wrote:I guess it'll just be a powerwagon of some sort when you are done with it...kinda sad considering carry-alls are somewhat rare. Perhaps you'd be better off with a power giant to resto-rod.
I was fearful that this would be unwelcome here...

I'm not going to cut the truck up by anymeans of the imagination. It will still be a Carryall, and from the outside looking in, the only thing giving away the components that aren't original will be the lug pattern and wheels. I'm even looking into a way of having wheels made for the 8 lug axles to appear as the same as the original Combat wheels.
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by SlyGareth »

I really didn't mean to make you feel unwelcome, rather just say (plaintiff wail) it would be tough to watch a historical vehicle turn resto-rod...especially since you haven't started into it and made the irreversable mods. I know lots of folks whom use PowerWagon or Late Production 9-5/8's axle with reduced gear ratios, M37 or powerwagon xfer case with SBC's powering it and have what appears stock but runs good (Still not kosher with some purists) retaining original looks but modernly powered and whatnot (plus you can become an MVPA member and WWII Reenactor and/or drive it in patriotic parades, etc..)
Last edited by SlyGareth on Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by SlyGareth »

As for creature comforts, if you install an ambulance heater...that is about all they would have had in the field during the war.

Let's encourage this fellow to keep it orginal and still have a highway driveable rig.
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by Alxj64 »

SlyGareth wrote:I really didn't mean to make you feel unwelcome, rather just say (plaintiff wail) it would be tough to watch a historical vehicle turn resto-rod...especially since you haven't started into it and made the irreversable mods. I know lots of folks whom use PowerWagon or Late Production 9-5/8's axle with reduced gear ratios, M37 or powerwagon xfer case with SBC's powering it and have what appears stock but runs good (Still not kosher with some purists) retaining original looks but modernly powered and whatnot (plus you can become an MVPA member and WWII Reenactor and/or drive it in patriotic parades, etc..)
Drivetrain modification is to make the truck safer. Even the changes you listed above aren't sufficient to safely operate a vehicle in modern traffic. It needs to maintain a safe speed, change lanes, and stop from the safe speed at the same rate as vehicles around it. I still plan on taking part in plenty of parades, but more people will see the truck in one day on my trip to work, then would see it in half a dozen parades. Imagine pulling up to this truck and parking next to it in a grocery store parking lot. Its not something you would expect to see everyday... Why don't you see them everyday? Because the ones that are restored back to original can not be driven everyday, and enjoyed everyday. This truck is still going to be a 1942 Dodge WC53 Carryall. That is not changing by simply changing the axles, engine, and transmission. Its true the truck will not be exactly what it was when it was built new, but thats the sacrafice to having something that can be operated, and enjoyed as compared to something that can only be driven on secluded back roads or to a MV event or driven in a parade. History knows what these trucks are, but the majority of the public does not. You would be amazed at the number of people that have been educated on these trucks simply by walking into my garage and seeing this one. "What is it? How old? How many? Thats cool!"... Same people would have never seen it. When its sitting in my office parking lot, that many more people will see it and remember "Ohh yea, WWII". I can keep going with this but I am not. I've seen other posts that are very much against "Rat-Rod" or "Hot-Rod"... This is none of those things. This a resto-mod for the sake of increasing the daily use of a historical piece of equipment that would otherwise sit hidden away in someone's collection somewhere, or at best appear in parades and MV rallies. I smile everytime I see a 2.5 ton, which are super abundant, driving down the road. I would really smile if I saw any WC truck sitting in traffic. Wouldn't you? Even if you can't tell by looking at it that under the hood is a modern safely performing engine, axles with brakes rated to stop the truck, and a steering and anti-sway system under it to keep it from endangering the passengers of it and the others around it? Only someone like ourselves could then stick their head under the truck and say, "hey, thats not original", but you would still smile sitting there looking at in traffic if you didn't know any better.
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by Florence »

Hello and welcome to the forum ...

please don't modify this Carryall. The body looks to be in real good condition from the pictures, would be a great restoration project and after all than you have a rare Dodge and a piece of history.
Drivetrain modification is to make the truck safer. Even the changes you listed above aren't sufficient to safely operate a vehicle in modern traffic. It needs to maintain a safe speed, change lanes, and stop from the safe speed at the same rate as vehicles around it.
This is not neccessary. A well maintenanced original 3/4 ton Dodge is relatively safe even in modern traffic. It depends on the calm of the driver (take all the time the Dodge needs) and even more how well the Dodge is taken care of.

When it is going to be too crowdy - take a break.

What makes the Dodge safer (driving at night or in rain is no fun) is an extra back light.

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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by Alxj64 »

Florence wrote:Hello and welcome to the forum ...

please don't modify this Carryall. The body looks to be in real good condition from the pictures, would be a great restoration project and after all than you have a rare Dodge and a piece of history.
What the pictures don't show are the layers of sprayed on sound deadening material that can not be removed. It doesn't show the bent and cracked frame, it also doesn't show the factory riveted in bellhousing engine mounts and part of the spring hangars, and rear cross member have been torched out of the truck.

Florence wrote:A well maintenanced original 3/4 ton Dodge is relatively safe even in modern traffic. It depends on the calm of the driver (take all the time the Dodge needs) and even more how well the Dodge is taken care of.
I've driven a 3/4 ton Dodge on the road, it lacks power steering, power brakes, turning radius, along with many other features that can be upgraded to allow the truck to perform better.
Florence wrote:When it is going to be too crowdy - take a break.
If I were to wait for that, where I live, then the truck would never be driven, stock or modernized. I wouldn't be able to leave a 4 square block area of my neighborhood. Once again, if I can make these simple, non aesthetic changes to a truck that is already been robbed of its original powertrain, and enjoy driving it everyday, then why not? Simply for the fact of saying that "its 100% original"... doesn't weigh out enough for me to go through the greater effort to bring the truck back to original and then just stare at it sitting in a garage because its too slow, doesn't stop, and dangerous to drive and enjoy. If I lived in the middle of nowhere, where there were miles of back woods 2 lane roads, then sure, I can see leaving it original and riding into a small town and getting groceries. Its simply not the case here. And its partially not because of the me driving the truck. The other driver's and their impatience, and making sudden stops, etc.

Its obvious that I made a mistake by posting this project on this forum. I was hoping that folks would see beyond the 100% restorations and maybe see the reasoning behind making some changes to a truck. The speed of traffic, and automotive technology is forever evolving. These trucks may be a piece of history, but I don't want this one to get left behind and thats all it is... is a piece of history. If I can make it part of my every day life and not just a "once in a while truck", thats what I am going to do with it. At this point it appears wise of me to just let sleeping dogs lie and go about the restoration and modernization of the truck without stepping on any more toes. I'll still be around to pick brains on things however, as the majority of the truck will still be returned to original.
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by SlyGareth »

One last thought...I know of a couple of original carryall frames begging for restorable bodies....KenJ, you out there?
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by krisinwa.st. »

Hi AIxj64 , Welcome to the Dodge .
First of all I agree with what you want to do to you're vehicle ,
all points are very valid to me . I believe that , not everyone on
this forum is 100 percent hard core restorers , so don't get discouraged
to quickly . Hang in there ! Kris
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by Ray Edsall »

G,Day all . Just take a look at what Paul Myrope did with his carryall { Image event , Then carryall ].If he had not restored his as he did ,i dought that it would have been restored at all . In the end he had a real good cruiser that looked like a wc53 . Maybe some one can post a link to his resto on here . Absolutly brilliant .After all ,a wc53 is a wc53 .It would take a lot of butchering to turn it into something else .. Ray .
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by Vista52 »

Ray...probably not what you mean but here's one.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7054
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by tjmilitary »

I experienced a similar situation back when I was in high school. I bought a Model A Ford Coupe (basket case) body only. The question was, do I restore it to original condition or do I make it a street rod? My two freinds were restoring a couple of Tudor Sedans so it was a difficult decission. I bit the bullet and rodded the coupe but did not modify the original body in any way. The thought was that someday it could be turned back to original. Well guess what, it is some 40+ years later and it is still a rod. I have bought an original chassis for it's resurrection but I also found another body so it will remain a rod the rest of my life. Point being that I didn't hack the car up but gave it 40 more years of life that it probable would not have seen. You are doing the same thing with your WC. If it was a complete unmolested vehicle I would have a different opinion, but it has been motified already. Move on with your project and give it another 60 years of life. It will still be a WC then. Who knows you may run across the parts you need to make it all original some day. Good and ENJOY!! :thumbup:
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by billpoe »

I think that you should do what makes you proud of it. I saw my first wc when I was 18. Am 58 now. I knew that someday I would own a truck like that some day. I finally got a wc 1 nine years years ago and got it on the road this year.(actually I now have five total you can see in my link below) While I admire original restorations I did mine civilian style with a few additions like a cd radio in the glove box with an antenna hidden behind the spare tire. Anyway I like your idea of keeping it close to original while making changes you want. Please post some photos when you get it going. You're the one driving it so make it proud to have you behind the wheel.. I also have a wc 12 which is too cool to restore totally.Has been lifted and a nicely built flat bed. it has it's 71 years of patina so all I plan to do it get it mechanically sound, repair any cancerous rust and drive it as is.
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Re: WC53 - Project Big Band Wagon

Post by krisinwa.st. »

Thanks Vista52 ,
That is the project I was trying to remember ..............
"My WC53 project " by WC4door , . So AIxj64 maybe take a look
at that thread or posts , whatever there called ? .
Post script ; Even divingrocks liked it at the time :wink:
lets Keep Em Rolling . Kris
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