MACHINE GUNS

[samason]

So our wc51 ,52 63's are called weapons carriers. How come we allways see the jeeps carring MG's but rarely see a WC witn one.
When i got my 42 wc 51 it had at one time a pedastal mount between the seats in the bed. it was a GI modification . The guy that had the truck took it out and sold it. ouch.
Has anyone seen many pics of these trucks with MG'S?


STEVE A

[Ugg]

Steve:

Go to the Wiki site to see some pictures like that. My personal fav is the pic of Patton's CC with a Ma Deuce on the RB.

Later

[Tony B]

I think the term weapons Carrier came about as they were intended to carry mortar or heavy Machine guns that would be dismounted for use.. In British service they came under the heading "GS" General Service, which means the same as mine does, whatever she's asked. So far it's included moving house at midnight, towing out a stuck Police vehicle, transporting half cut re-enactors, a very regular job, transport for vetrans, gun tractor for 25 pounders. Parading in front of Buckingham Palace and no end of towing in breackdowns.

[Jack Perry]

I have a copy of FM 101-10 "Staff Officers' Field manual - Organizational and Logistical Data" dated June 15, 1941. Information is provided for the following types of Divisions:
- Infantry Division (Square)
- Infantry Division (Triangular)
- Infantry Division (Triangular, Motorized)
- Cavalry Division (Horse)
- Armored Division

Each of these division have tables showing a summary of the division's equipment, including vehicles, weapons and other items. At the end of these tables for the Cavalry Division (Horse) and the Armored Civision, there is a "Notes" section that includes a paragraph called "Armament of Vehicles". The other division types do not have this section.

Here is what these paragraphs display:

Cavalry Division (Horse):
- Each Mortar Carriage:
- 1 MG, hv, cal .30
- 1 MG, cal 50
- 1 Sub MG, cal .45

- Each Car, Scout and Car, Half Track:
- 2 MG, hv, cal .30
- 1 MG, cal 50
- 1 Sub MG, cal .45

- Each Light Tank:
- 1 37-mm gun
- 5 MG, l, cal .30
- 1 Sub MG, cal .45

Armored Division
- Each Car, Scout and Car, Half Track:
- 2 MG, hv, cal .30
- 1 MG, cal 50
- 1 Sub MG, cal .45

- Each Carrier, personneld, half-track:
- 1 MG, hv, cal .30
- 1 Sub MG, cal .45

- Each Carrier, 81-mm Mortar, half-track:
- 1 MG, hv, cal .30
- 1 MG, cal 50
- 1 Sub MG, cal .45

- Each Light Tank:
- 1 37-mm gun
- 5 MG, l, cal .30
- 1 Sub MG, cal .45

- Each Medium Tank:
- 1 75 mm gun
- 1 37 mm gun
- 4 MG, l, cal .30
- 2 Sub MG, cal .45

The implication, for me, is that all other vehicles did not have weapons mounted on them.

Keep in mind however, that this FM was published prior to the advent of the 3/4 ton truck. All of the command, radio, carry-alls and weapons carriers are 1/2 ton. So I believe that 1/2 ton WCs did not have weapons mounted. Not sure about the 3/4 ton WCs when they came along.

[Ugg]

Jack:

Thanks for the info. I believe what ya have there is what is called the T O & E (Training, Organization & Equipment) for the different type units.

Later

[Jack Perry]

Ugg, you are correct, although this FM had only abbreviated versions of the TO&E for these divisions.

I should have included a comment that these are the "official" rules concerning armament of vehicles. As many have stated on this forum, all sorts of field modifications were made, and I would imagine we can find evidence of almost every weapon imaginable mounted on every type of vehicle imaginable.

What I found really interesting was the Cavalry Division (Horse). What a mixture of old and new (horses, tanks and half-tracks) in the same organization. I never realized the Army had such an organization. Makes those pictures that were posted recently of some Cav units even more informative than I realized at first.

[samason]

Do any of you guy's have machineguns mounted on your WC'S?

steve

[EJOWest]

I picked up a M24A2 mount from MWM that I'm planning on installing on my WC63. I don't have a machine gun for it yet though.

Ernie

[samason]

THAT SOUNDS COOL. WHERE ON THE TRUCK ARE YOU PLANNING ON MOUNTING IT?
THE DARN MOUNTS/ACCESSERIES COST AS MUCH AS THE MG

STEVE

[EJOWest]

It mounts between the front bed panel and the driver/passenger seats.

Ernie

[GTBGUY]

I am sure that you know the WC62/63 had a specific ring mount designed for them (M50). This is not to say that the M24 series could not be used.

[Ugg]

I had posted a picture over at the Wiki site of a WC 51/52 landing at Utah on D Day, and it had a 50 mounted on it. It looked to be mounted in the cab, between the 2 seats????? Patton had his mounted on the passenger side RB, behind the front fender. There's also a picture of a WC 51 in the PTO that had a 50 mounted on the front bumper.

Later

[DS]

I came across a pic somewhere on the web which shows a well laiden WC with a .50cal on the passenger step. It took a while for me to recognise the gun for what it was as I wasn't expecting to see it and it has a cover on it. I'd post it for you but dont know how. (I dont have the pic on a site). I also was sent some good photos of the correct mount from a couple of guys who had them so that I could fab my own up. Cant give you the correct I.D. number of it as I dont know it! But it is the one which sits 'behind' / between the seats. Definitely not a field mod in the way most of the step mounts were. I also have a pic of a 'dashbord' clamp/mount to accept a pedestal. This also looks less of a field mod item, but I'm happy to be corrected on any of this.[/img]

[samason]

The 1/4 ton truck i.e. jeep nas a provision for mounting a MG. They have a plate on the frame cross member for a pedlestal mount.
Best i can tell the dodge has no such provision. Other than the ring mounts i have seen on WC63'S.

steve

[Ugg]

Steve:

Ah, but some do, especially the WC 55. However, that was for a 37mm gun. Just remember the term, "FIELD EXPEDIANT" .

DS:

If ya have those pics, I'd really love to get copies. Maybe if you could post em on the Wiki site.

Later