WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

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Tom Wolboldt
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by Tom Wolboldt »


How did Dodge sneak into this?
Typical "newbie" error, it happens a lot. [/quote]

Back in '45 I can understand how there could have been a large turn over in Ordnance personnel where mistakes could be made in putting together any number of manuals due to ' Typical "newbie" error '.
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by RANGER »

Not so much a turn over, but possibly during the proof reading of the thousands of listed parts. It probably got monotonous spending hundred of hours editing manuals. Errors were followed up with bulletins and changes that were supposed to be inserted in manuals, we do not have the wartime luxury of being on the wartime publication list and are lucky to have some of the manuals such as you have quoted. I see occasional errors in the ORD-14-3 also, but it is no big deal.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
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Tom Wolboldt
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by Tom Wolboldt »

More fuel pump bowl data:

In the TM-10-1186 Willys Master Parts List dated 1942 for the period Jan., '40 through July 15, '42 there is an exploded view of the fuel pump sub-labeled Models MA and MB. The fuel pump bowl is indexed ' H " in the view.

Index " H " is described as :

H * Gov't Group - 0302 * Part No. - 115655 * Name - Bowl, Glass, Model MA

and

H * Gov't Group - 0302 * Part No. - A-1294 * Name - Bowl, Metal, Model MB

Under Group Gov't Group listing 0302 there are two ( 2 ) fuel pumps listed :

Fuel pump assembly ( A.C. Spark Plug Co. No. 1537632 ) - MA

and

Fuel pump assembly ( A.C. Spark Plug Co. No. 1537766 ) - MB

Of all the listed A.C. Spark Plug Co. parts making up these two fuel pumps only one part varies between them and that is fuel pump bowl being 115655 - Glass or A-1494 - Metal. Both parts are listed as applying to either the MA or MB but this a case of " can work on either " not what came O.E.M. on the vehicle from the factory. I can see how some could be confused reading these manuals many years after the fact.

To my way of thinking if the MB fuel pump had a glass bowl than it would have been fuel pump 1537632 instead of 1537766. Do you have any other thoughts or hard data that points in a different direction on this subject ?
Last edited by Tom Wolboldt on Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RANGER
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by RANGER »

All I know is that when I have ordered the A-1220, or AC 153766 Pump Assy. from Jeep or thru AC, I got the 1538312, A-8323 Pumps with a glass bowl. These were listed in Jeep Dealer parts lists and AC lists in the 50's thru 70's and came with Glass Bowls. The Pumps I was replacing had Metal Bowls.
One way to cut thru the argument is to reuse or order A-1494 Metal Bowls which used to be in the Jeep system thru the 70's and may still be available thru AC.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
Other Hobby- Army Air Force & Busting Big Ass Military Imposters-Good at it
Tom Wolboldt
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by Tom Wolboldt »

One way to cut thru the argument
I am not having an argument. I am only working to get history recorded correctly from a STATEMENT made that said MBs came with glass fuel bowls on factory installed fuel pumps.

With you last posted data I now better understand how the glass bowl fuel statement was made. Please correct me with hard data if this incorrect.

The ORD 8 SNL G503 dated August 1951 lists only one MB fuel pump bowl ( A-1494 ) for three ( 3 ) fuel pumps numbered AC-1538886, AC-1537766, and AC-1538312.

During WW2 these 3 fuel pumps had to compile with the Government spec. in place at the time to be allowed to be installed on new MBs. In post war times there were no construction specs. involved in selling Willys-Overland / AC fuel pumps in the civilian market . Since ( at least in 1941 ) the glass fuel pump bowl was about 8 times cheaper than the metal bowl ( plus civilians like to watch the bubbles in the bowl ), Willys or AC ( could have been either ) purchased / made pumps with the cheaper glass bowl but with the MB AC part numbers stamped into the body so if they did need to sell pumps to a government all they had to do was change out the bowls for a metal spec'ed one from pumps in stock or new production and they were good to go to sell to either a government or civilian market with no change in parts tooling.
RANGER
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by RANGER »

Are you a "bubble watcher" ? Did you enjoy making bubbles in the bath tub when you were little ? :)
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
Other Hobby- Army Air Force & Busting Big Ass Military Imposters-Good at it
Tom Wolboldt
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by Tom Wolboldt »

Are you a "bubble watcher" ?
No. I am not since I understand how a fuel pump works so I do not need a glass bowl to see the bubbles. Many persons do not so they want to see the bubbles and AC sold them the pump type that they wanted or needed.

I guess this thread is now done since you have again reverted to changing the subject or making some crude question or remark. Your mentors must be proud to see how you turned out in dealing with others.
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by RANGER »

Tom, no big deal, we know that most pumps on combat vehicles had the metal bowl, Jeep had glass at one time. I have witnessed fresh surplus Jeeps back when they were numerous that occasionally had a glass bowl, and do not have the personal time to research it for you.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
Other Hobby- Army Air Force & Busting Big Ass Military Imposters-Good at it
Tom Wolboldt
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by Tom Wolboldt »

Thank you for the time and data that you have given to this thread!

The readers now have many dots that they can connect to decide the true facts in the case of MBs having factory installed glass fuel pump bowls.
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by RANGER »

Am sure that some obscure records have a definite answer when the metal fuel bowls were adopted for the WWII MV's, it may have happened under the Quartermaster Corps at Camp Holabird, am sure it was not just a Jeep thing. I just don't have time to do research like that anymore.
I have a publication for U.S. Army Administrative and Tactical Vehicles that refers to wartime AC parts and kits for the MA/MB/GPW fuel pump and the bowl is not listed.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
Other Hobby- Army Air Force & Busting Big Ass Military Imposters-Good at it
Tom Wolboldt
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by Tom Wolboldt »

Thanks in advance for any time that you can spare on this subject in the future.

You had wrote :
All I know is that when I have ordered the A-1220, or AC 153766 Pump Assy. from Jeep or thru AC, I got the 1538312, A-8323 Pumps with a glass bowl.
It may not be much use using the ORD 14-4 Supply Catalog on this subject since it lists the AC-1538312 fuel pump for the GPW, GPA, and MB as a six valve pump that would not have even have a bowl - glass or metal. See note 26 on page 265 Vol 1.
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by RANGER »

I have an AC1538312 that I purchased from my AC jobber in 1972, it is not a 6 Valve. It has the lever and 8312 on the mounting flange. It came from AC with a glass bowl and performed fine on my GPW engine from 72 thru March 2013. It has been removed as a precaution and is headed out for fresh kit. It would probably last for several more years.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
Other Hobby- Army Air Force & Busting Big Ass Military Imposters-Good at it
Tom Wolboldt
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by Tom Wolboldt »

I am not saying you did not get what you got in 1972. I am just pointing out either the ORD 14-2 is incorrect ( which than questions other data in it ) or that there is a difference in AC pump fuel numbers from 1538312 to just 8312.

Earlier you posted that you purchased a pump marked 1538312 but now you say the pump is just marked 8312.

Are these different pumps or did AC drop the " 153 " from their parts numbers and they are the same pumps ?

Also great to see a fuel pump last so long!!! I doubt a Chinese made pump would even come close.
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by RANGER »

Check your SNL for the WO-A-8323 Fuel Pump, the Manufacturers Part No. is AC-1538312. It is common for AC to stamp the last four digits of their AC 7 digit manufacturers number on the lower edge of the mounting flange. The WO- A-8323 Pumps will have 8312 stamped on them.
Over the years since the 40's when we ordered these from our AC-Jobber Warehouse, the AC Part number on the box was 8312. This is the number that was used to order these pumps commercially. They have not been available from AC or local parts counters since the late 70's.
The above Pump superseded WO-A-1220 Pump. I have sold a few hundred of these since the 50's.
The Civilian version without Priming Handle was AC-572 and was OEM to CJ-2A and early CJ-3A.
What would be a big help to you would be a postwar thru 50's civilian AC Fuel Pump Catalog.
It helps to know both sides of the story on Army Jeep and Civilian Jeep parts availability.
I've been practicing it since the 40's as many of the G-503 parts had to be civilian sourced thru Jeep or other dealers.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
Other Hobby- Army Air Force & Busting Big Ass Military Imposters-Good at it
Tom Wolboldt
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Re: WWII JEEP FUEL PUMP

Post by Tom Wolboldt »

Yes, you are correct. An AC fuel pump catalog would be a good cross check. The old Willys price books that I have also are another source to review but neither one tells what was being sold to the Government with government specs. They only show what was available to the civilian market.
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