Motor oil

RANGER
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Motor oil

Post by RANGER »

The Army used Detergent Oil, I do the same. I have friends that use multiple viscosity, but I am comfortable with SHELL ROTELLA T #30 motor oil in my CCKW(no smoke-zero consumption), it is formulated for Diesel and heavy duty gasoline engines. I have used it without problems in the CCKW, my M-38A1 and M-37 since 1983 when I standardized on one Motor Oil for most of my MVs. I am partial to my MB though and have used AMOCO Formula 200 since 1971 when I installed a NOS GPW engine out of the crate. I bought 6 Cases of the AMOCO back then to be sure that I would not run out.
Last edited by RANGER on Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
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RANGER
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Post by RANGER »

Use good quality Motor Oil, as the CCKW 270 Engine is subject to heavy duty use just about every time you climb a hill, and the very nature of the CCKW design called for the truck to work hard in all climates and terrain. A google on Shell Rotella T single and multiple grade viscosities state it is for both Gasoline and Diesel Service in Commercial vehicles. Shell also lists facts on how best to choose an Oil, and states that on older engines it is best to use the viscosity that the manufacturer suggested. In the case of the CCKW, that would be SAE 30 above 32F. I have approx 50 Gallons of Rotella T on my Oil Shelf, and have had no problems with it after 20+ supervise a Petroleum Products Laboratory and am familiar with Motor Oils for fleet use. One time I contacted a Shell engineer about using Rotella T in my new 1980 Chevrolet pickup, and was warned against using Rotella T in the 5.7 CID Diesel as the "metallurgy of the camshaft and the chemistry of the oil were not compatible" in that specific engine, and " the camshaft will fail". He suggested to continue with the Texaco Diesel Oil. I was using. The Truck Stop I did business with had 3 of these 1980 Chevrolet Diesel Pickups, and used Rotella T in them, all 3 lost their Camshafts within 45,000 miles. Shell knows what their product well, and the Rotella T is very compatible with the old 270. A bit of trivia, I supervised a petroleum products testing lab years ago and spoke their language.Trust them.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
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RANGER
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Post by RANGER »

There is actually a Motor Oil controversy going on at another website, the CCKW owner has stated that Shell Rotella T 30 is the worst oil ever. There was an apparant problem with the engine smoking, and no oil delivery to the Oil Filter. The remedy was attempted in a manner that most experienced mechanics would not use. Photos were taken of the project, and it was indicated that his two carburetors were not up to snuff. The photos indicated that the engine was not stock and that modifications were done at some point in its life. What should have been done was to properly hook up the CCKW oil lines, crankcase ventilation, and have the carburetor professionally reconditioned before tearing the engine apart to have a peek, that way there would be a baseline to establish that all external systems that could relate to the oily exhaust problem were known to be operating properly, and establish a basis to properly trouble shoot from. Instead, this was not done, the head was removed, and replaced. The story ended with the diagnosis of single weight Rotella T being the culprit, and that the problem vanished with 15-40 Rotella T.The owner now claims that Rotella T is the worst oil ever. Shell sells thousands of gallons of Rotella T for Fleet use in both Gasoline and Diesel Fleets, it is one of the most popular selling heavy duty truck oils in the US. My CCKW has utilized Rotella T SAE#30 since 1983 and never has smoked or had to have oil added between changes. It has also been remarked that Shell states Rotella T is for Heavy duty truck engines, and that the GMC 270 is not heavy duty. I beg to differ.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
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michael

oil

Post by michael »

Alot of historonics about motor oil lately. If you can get people to calm down and identify thier concerns you realise they dont really know what the issues are and or if it effects them.
Older engines as a rule needed certain types and certain amounts of various addatives in theier lubricating oil to reduce scuffing and wear on various internal parts. Specifically it seems the cam lobe and lifter. more modern engines have roller lifters and overhead cam valvetrains that need less of these additives or none at all. It has also been determined that these additives when burned with the oil as a natural part of the combustion process can coat oxygen sensors and other sensors in modern fuel injection engines. These very sensative sensors when coated begine to malfunction or experience deminished or inaccurate capability. Modern motor oils have since reduced or eliminated these additives to the consternation of operators of older vehicles who may wish to use the best quality motor oil in thier older vehicles. Specificly using modern synthetic oils in older engines may have a detrimental effect on ,it seems, the cam and lifters in older engines. Even a new cam and lifter set up in rebuilt engines during break in are severlyaffected. Interestingly enough many muscle car owners reporting on other web sites have have discovered that mixing thier favorite brand of synthetic motor oil with coincedently That very same Rotella motor oil gives them the best of both worlds. I have been doing this for almost 7 years in a 65 pontiac and a 90 camry and have had no detrimental effects other than a slight increase in the anual number of speeding tickets.
Synthetic fluids and lubricants are in all respects Ideal with argueably the acception of silicon brake fluid.
If you go with a modern oil it is niether required or recomended that you flush your engine lubricating system at any time. If you want to clean out your lubricating system your best bet is to pull your oil pan,valve cover and rocker covers and clean them. Replace your filter and while you have the oil pan off replace your oil pump. At the very least clean off the oil pump pick-up screen. There is no advantage or reason to go to a heavier weight motor oil. Synthetic/modern motor oils do not cause leaks to occur. That is an old wives tale. Synthetic oils do not "thin out" and leak past seals more often then mineral based oils. A 30 WT motor oil is 30 WT weather it is synthetic or mineral based. If anything mineral based motor oils are more likely to change viscosity with extended use then synthetic and it is likely to increase in viscosity. Dont use motor flush concoctions or any other addatives Good quality clean motor oil is all you need. Change your oil regularly and keep the level up. One last thing that may draw arguements is oil change intervals. Even with synthetics it is recomended that oil change intervals be short as is practical. The justification being to remove contaminates held in suspension. ie. the oil is not worn out per se but is dirty. Thus endith the lesson
Ken Blythen
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Post by Ken Blythen »

When I first got my CCW, it had been fitted with a Ford diesel engine from some time back in the early 70's. I've since fitted an original 270 which is in good condition but I don't know it's oil history.

How much risk is there in going to a detergent oil if it has spent a big chunk of it's life on non or low detergent oil ? I know this prospect scares some. So far I've stayed with a low spec. oil until I've flushed it & decided what to do.

Anyone had good or bad experience with this ? Thanks

Ken B
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Post by RANGER »

OE used by the US ARMY in WWII is Detergent.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
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Ken Blythen
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Post by Ken Blythen »

My concern is more the years since the war - through the 50's - 70's in civilian use, until detergent oils were used universally. I spoke to three oil companies today; they all said that provided the engine sump etc was cleaned of sludge, there should be no problem in going to a detergent oil - that any carbon breakdown as a result of the detergent would be held in suspension, & would not present a threat to the engine. They did say, however, that in a worn engine cleaned by the detergent oil, consumption may increase due to varnish & carbon deposits no longer helping sealing in ring grooves etc.

I'm leaning towards flushing the engine with a light oil & then using a detergent oil & see how it goes.
RANGER
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Post by RANGER »

There is nothing to gain by flushing. either your engine is going to consume oil or not. worn metal parts do not return to tolerance.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
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Jason
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Post by Jason »

Here are my thougths on Oil based on what I was told by a Mobil dealer. (I dont use Mobil)

Use a good quality oil (SAE certifed).
Choose and stay with your oil. Mixing different additives can cause geling (found in people that use what ever is on sale cars).
Change your oil waiting for the mileage (that single parade a year) allows a lot of moisture build up degradeing oil.

There is no real magic product to restore worn engines other than a rebuild.

Keep Motoring
Jason
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Ken Blythen
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Post by Ken Blythen »

Thanks for the replies

I don't hope to improve engine condition by flushing before using new oil - I simply want to clean the old oil out as best possible.
RANGER
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Post by RANGER »

And that is what WWII OE30 was designed to do.
US ARMY HONOR GRADUATE MECHANIC, Restorer of fine Jeeps, MV's, MVPA 40+yrs, DAV, Army Aircrew member, Donor to Military Museums & CAF, MV Hobby since 1945
Other Hobby- Army Air Force & Busting Big Ass Military Imposters-Good at it