1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

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Gordon_M
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by Gordon_M »

EJOWest wrote:From what source does the information come from regarding the T207 engines installed in the third batch of VCs?

I have no idea where I heard that. I'm sure I've seen something to back it up, but no idea where. I think the scenario is when they finished the second decent sized batch of VC trucks there were chassis and bodies spare ( incidentally I checked - my analysis of the types above was correct except for the fact that the second batch of trucks had some VC2 Radio as well )

They then ran the third batch of VCs, 8,644,346 through to 8,644640, only 294 trucks, and they were all VC1 or V5. Somewhere I heard that some or all of these trucks were fitted with T207 engines, I can only assume because there were no T202 engines left and the T207 engines were available.

The reason I heard that was something to do with a T207 discussion, and the thrust of that discussion was that a VERY low T207 code engine might belong in a VC rather than an early WC.

Of course what we need to back that up would be a very late VC1 or VC5 from the chassis number list up top, that has a very low T207 code engine, but I'm sure wherver I heard it I thought it was reliable.

Wally Wahlforth has a truck in that sequence, but the engine code is from the start of production rather than the end so it will have been swapped.
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by EJOWest »

I found this. "Ordnance Department Administrative and Tactical Vehicles 1940-1941-1942-1943-1944" It's not a very clear copy, I'd like to find a clearer copy. But the note says...

"1182 Vehicles - Contract 8039 Models VC2 and VC3 use T-207 engine. "

It's a little confusing because in the column they call them models WC1 & WC8, but in the notes it specifically states VC2 & VC3 with T207 engines. I wonder if that means the first 1175 WC1s were really VC3s with T207 and the first 7 WC8s were VC2s with T207 engines?

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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

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Thanks for finding that Ernie - I'd be interested in a clearer copy if you find one.

That tells us definite answers to two outstanding VC questions and a possible answer to the third.

1. The single vehicle that was supplied to the Civilian Conservation Corps, CCC17659, was a pickup with seats ( annoyingly we can't tell if it was open or closed cab )

2. It confirms Radio Command production with both USA 60xxx and USA 60xxxx serial numbers, and in a bigger quantity that we knew of before.

3. It confirms a batch of 1182 VC trucks with T-207 code engines, on contract 8039. The new point for me here is that this is a fourth VC production contract. Remember that the third contract, for a very small quantity, was purely VC 1 and VC 5, but this subsequent contract was for VC 2 and VC 3, so my totals are all wrong.

I suspect this last batch of VC 2 trucks were held till 12 volt engines were available, but can't think of another reason to build VC 3 trucks except to use up existing chassis and sheetmetal when T-207 engines became available.

I think I only have one very late chassis number on the survivors list. I wonder if contract 8039 was built as a DAW code contract for Defense Aid overseas.

Answered some questions, raised others.

Thanks again.
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by Ernie Baals »

Great info Ernie
Thanks for posting !!!
In the Frnch Dodge book, page 16. Therre is a WC1, with VC axels under it.
I always just thought of it as a prototype WC1.
Could this be one of the VC3 mentioned ???
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

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I considered that, but look at that image again Ernie.

It clearly says VC 2 and VC 3 with T 207 engines, not WC 1 with VC axles, or anything like that.

We need to find out more about that last contract and what happened to them, and I need to update the production table and so on.

That WC 1 image gets about as it is much copied, but I see that as an early WC truck that had to be built with VC axles purely because WC axles weren't available.
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by EJOWest »

I found a source for the "Administrative & Tactical Vehicles 1940-44 " and sent for copy.

I read some of the 8039 contract were supplied to Argentina.

I looked in the two French Dodge books I have and didn't find the WC1 with VC axles. Which French Dodge book are you looking at Ernie?

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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by Gordon_M »

That rings a vague bell. I recall something about a shipment of Command Cars to Argentina. I always assumed they were VC1, but no reason they couldn't have been VC 2 Radio Command.

Certainly more work to do here. Can you please let me have a good image of that list when you get it and I'll tinker with my VC production list
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by Ernie Baals »

the book is

DODGE
cing generations de tous terrains

Jean Michel Boniface
Jean Gabriel Jeudy

1979 was the year it came out


Ernie
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by Gordon_M »

Thanks to Fred Coldwell I now have a better image of that list. Unfortunately I'm now working away from home so it may be some time till I can get the information built into the production page

http://www.gwim2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vclist.htm

You can see that a number of the questions on there are now answered, basically the additional contract give us an explanation of the additional VC 2 Radio question and shows the CCC vehicle was a pickup. It does mean the production figures will be larger and more chassis numbers will be used that are not ( yet ) accounted for, so I'll have to start looking at the chassis number gap between the third VC contract and the official start of WC production.

Thanks again Fred

As an addition to the above, Ernie W. copied me on a 1941 US reprint of the VC1, 2, 3, 5, and 6 manual which showed 'all' the US military USA numbers from the first three known contracts.

Thoughts?
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by EJOWest »

One conflict I see with a fourth VC contract theory, is that there are some WC-1s in the 1/2 ton list linked below which have serial numbers and hood numbers that fall in the 8039 contract range. Could it be that the trucks in the 8039 contract really were WC models but since they were built in 1940 they were designated VC for the year 1940 not WC for the year 1941? They were still following a year designation code at that time.
Just a thought.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8729
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by Gordon_M »

I had that thought too Ernie, but the official listing definitely says VC-2 and VC-3 use T-207 engine.

In addition to that, the VC-2 on the cover of that old Army Motors was W-60442, only 31 trucks before the start of the 8039 contract VC-2 trucks at W-60473.

That listing also shows different numbers for VC-1 production on the 7500 contract ( (1447 not 1473 ) and it suggests different hard / soft cab split totals, and a higher end USA number for the pickups ( USA 25789 ) which is 3 before the first official WC pickup USA number ( USA 25792 ) which is further down the page.

I don't have any records of VC pickups with a high number near USA 25789 - do you know of any WC pickups with USA numbers down around ( or below ) USA 25792 ?

The 8039 contract totals 1182 trucks that we know of, so an examination of the chassis number gap between the end of VC production and the start of WC production may tell us something. Might be even more complicated if the 8039 contract was DAW Defense Aid though
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

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We went on a road trip this past weekend :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eidRk3lTr-s
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

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Ernie, that is just plain wrong, teasing us poor rust prone east coast boys!!!!!
Are you guys going to let on where this gold mine is ?
You have me very jealous :mrgreen:
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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by Gordon_M »

very nice, wouldn't get parted out round here, I can tell you.

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Re: 1940 Dodge VC5 sheetmetal

Post by Dodge'40-'45 »

After seeing this, i'm seriously considering to move to the US :lol: , look at all those 1/2 ton command cars... and that wonderful 1/2 ton panel van :shock: You just don't find them this way in Europe. Except for some 3/4 ton WCs in France, but those are in most cases beyond rescue...
Was the closed cab VC without bed a VC3 or a VC1 with civillian cab?
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