1939 Diamond T on ebay

Matt
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1939 Diamond T on ebay

Post by Matt »

But is it military? the brush guard looks like it could be,and is that faded OD showing under the yellow?. Anyway it's a nice looking truck and appears complete.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... INDXX%3AIT
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Gordon_M
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Re: 1939 Diamond T on ebay

Post by Gordon_M »

The answer is in the ad, Matt.

US Government, Bureau of Indian Affairs, so Government but not army.

Nice truck. I think that hood and front fender setup was made from Auburn or Cord dies - stylish or what.
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Matt
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Re: 1939 Diamond T on ebay

Post by Matt »

Hi Gordon,

I saw that but I wonder if the Bureau of Indian Affairs were the first user? I had a look at Vanderveen and on page 350 he has Diamond T 614 2 1/2 ton which were supplied as telephone maintenance for the Signal Corps. Similiar model supplied with cargo and dump bodies SNL G554.

Either way I agree it's a nice looking truck!

Matt.
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Re: 1939 Diamond T on ebay

Post by Gordon_M »

Crismon has the telephone truck, and also a long wheelbase cargo version, on page 148 of US MILITARY WHEELED VEHICLES, the cargo truck actually has the same brushguard.

I think the Bureau of Indian Affairs sign is significant though, as the Government would have procured them just for that use, rather than transferred from the army.

If it had been for army use I'd have expected more obvious army equipment on it. Not saying it couldn't be painted green though.

I cross posted this on the HMVF Diamond T discussion, in case anyone there has deep pockets.
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Re: 1939 Diamond T on ebay

Post by wc 9 and 12 owner »

I haven't gone and looked at the ad but our local indian tribe here after WWII had gotten quite a few MVs from the US Govt and data plates that said Indian Affairs added. Someone pulled into our museum with a Clark Airborne Dozer a few years ago and asked if we would restore it for him for cost and display it but he wanted to keep it. It was one of the Indian Affairs marked MVs
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Re: 1939 Diamond T on ebay

Post by FISCH »

Actually US Govt has changed depending on the era and use of the vehicle.

Here is the BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front...) is even though it was Indian Affairs it could have been military. Research the serial number and the build card (don't know if Diamond T has resources like Dodges do but... clues could be there).

For instance many Military Vehicles were transferred to other Agencies depending on need and use of the vehicle in question. M37s were used by Forrestry Service, and National Guard (Yes National Guard is a Branch of the Military, but because of the Constitution it can be considered a State Government, or another agency depending under what article the transfer happened (complicated) ~ for practical purposes the National Guard comes under the National Guard Bureau which is associated with the Department of Defense, but unless Federalized comes under the respective States Chain of Command (each State has a Adjutant General)). From the Guards use vehicles can still be tranferred between agencies or State & Local Government (explains why so many Ambulances and M37s found thier way into the Mountainess/ Rural Fire Fighting Duty).

Now regarding the Indian Affairs ~ they come under the Department of the Interior (which Forrestry is a part of).

Now a days the General Services Administration tends to procure vehicles for most of the Government except for the strictly military vehicles. However, under the rules there is nothing that says another Agencie couldn't pick up a M35, or 800/900 series 2 1/2 or 5 ton truck out of the Defense Reutilization Marketing Organization (Government gets first pick). Think of FEMA, or even State Department (State now has the Civilian Response Corp ~ can talk more on that later) ...
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Re: 1939 Diamond T on ebay

Post by Forgotten Field »

Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) and Bureau of Land Management (BLM) were two US Government agencies entrusted with resources all over the US. As such, in pre-WWII government they were pretty much orphan agencies which got what they could. I have seen other BLM and BIA trucks and my new-to-me Saginaw Bomb Trailer was a BLM vehicle. But this was only after WWII. I tend to believe this Diamond T is a military vehicle that was released to the BIA at some point during WWII. One of the BLM's and BIA's main jobs was to maintain fire roads throughout the government land or to and from reservation properties- this would be a good vehicle for that. But I don't think the BIA or BLM would have bought anything other than off-the-shelf or purpose-built trucks from civilian manufacturers prior to WWII. This truck reminds me of my friend's Federal 2G dump truck- powered by a JXD, it also has a 2 speed rear. Doesn't that dump body look like a Chevy 1.5 ton? Looks like, but also looks different. Can anybody explain the 40 * 1/2 capacity listed on the dump hoist data plate?
My guess is that this truck went to the BIA after 1943, when the big Army Standardization program happened and they got rid of orphan vehicles.

Fisch- good explanation about the US G's policies and procedures. The other thing to consider is that pre-WWII acquisitions were publicly scrutinized. Back then, when the US Army was put in charge of the CCC, there were many debates about how this was a back-door way for the Army to get more powerful. That was a big no-no in pre-WWII society. The Government had to re-assure people that this was not so and was not a way to build up more defense. This was why military appointees to CCC camps and commands were so carefully scrutinized- Eisenhower got noticed by certain politicians this way before WWII, even though he was only a Major. That's a digression, but I think that the BIA buying trucks also bought by the Army would have caused a stir.

I really like when these vehicles show up. They are a real glimpse into a different time and a real challenge to figure out.
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Re: 1939 Diamond T on ebay

Post by FISCH »

Thanks for the support, but I still think the transfer could have happened from US Army to BLM or BIA just as a matter of course. Fill out the right paperwork and it could happen especially when you through in the CCC stuff. Of course you never know... another mistery
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