Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Ken J
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Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Ken J »

Hi All:

My VF-402 has a dump body added. Crawling around under it the other day, I could not, however, find where the winch PTO shaft would have been connected (the winch is missing).

There's a hole cut through the radiator support which looks like it may have been for the PTO shaft (driver's side); but following line-of-sight, it doesn't look like a shaft could have reached the transmission because of the clutch housing support/brake and clutch pedal parts. Also, there's already a PTO and shaft going to the rear for the dump body pump, and the shaft for that is in a line which would interfere with the same parts.

So, was there a different PTO for the winch as opposed to for the dump body?

Just for clarification, the truck has the original data plate which specifies the truck as being a VF-402, and it also has an original Gar Wood Industries plate for the winch. It appears the dump body was added at a later date.

Thanks
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Gordon_M
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It's a complex life...

Post by Gordon_M »

Well if we go back a step, we know that VF's came plain, with winch, or with dump (not with both)

It sounds like someone put the dump bed on yours and pulled the winch PTO off at the same time - presumably the dump PTO is sitting in the same place.

If you had a complete dump bed I'd say just restore it as a truck with a dump bed, and put a plain front on, but your bed has had the sides cut anyway.

If you had a complete winch setup I'd say go for that, but you're short of that too.

So, here's what you do in the short term - nothing except look for parts.
  • If you find an ordinary bed (or a Chevrolet 1.5 ton bed that can be altered a little) you might want to go back to a plain body with winch.

    If you find a winch front, grab it, and the associated PTO, you will always find a use for it.

    If you find a dump bed (and here presumably the 1.5 ton Chevrolet dump bed is almost exactly the same as well) you might want to stick with the dump setup and go for a plain front.
... and just when you thought it couldn't get more complicated, there is at least one VF 401 out there with both a winch and a dump added to it, so Chrysler probably had one of those dual PTO setups that would let you fit and work both, though it may take a bit of finding.

Image

There you go, a nice helpful message that screws up ALL your plans, eh? Got part numbers here in the list if you need them.

Merry Christmas.

Gordon
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Ken J
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Post by Ken J »

Thanks, Gordon, I've been guessing that either a dump truck got wrecked and a resourceful Motorpool sergeant made a combo, or some civilian did soon after the war.

The other thing I have to guess at is that the winch PTO drops down further os is located elsewhere, as a shaft going forward won't clear- so if you have assembly numbers and/or illustrations of the different PTO's available, that would help me to spot one in the future.

In the mean time, I'm going to work on reconditioning the dump and add the winch if I ever find one for less than $1,000.

As to the bed, I expect to be able to salvage it- none of the metalwork is special, just general fabrication. Besides, it still has the Budd Manufacturing builder's plate on it!

Also, I have that old eBay pic- it's a good reference. Do you know who owns it now???

Thanks for your time, Gordon, and we all wish you and your family a Merry Christmas and a Prosperous New Year.

Best,
-Ken J
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Gordon_M
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Morning Ken

Post by Gordon_M »

Well if you can salvage the existing bed - go for it. It is possible (but unlikely) that someone put the dump bed from a 1.5 ton Chevrolet on it, so be aware of that.

Apparently the differences between the Chev and Dodge versions of that bed are pretty much related to the position and clearances of the fuel filler cutout / location, so if the fuel filler location and bed parts look to match on your truck you have the original. Keep |Chevs in mind for bed parts though.

No idea about that VF, and they haven't been added to the list again (yet) so no name or address. I'd guess you could ask people who know about VFs - I'd be surprised if Townwagon Eric doesn't know of a few .

I don't think there is much info in the manual or part list - will look later when I get the chance and mention anything I find here.
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Hoist, body, winch and PTO stuff

Post by Gordon_M »

Right then, in the Parts List, the system is split as follows; (all numbers are Gar Wood)

D6R cylinder assembly
Sub-frame assembly
Pump assembly (four types, A-12-676-L, A12-676-R, A12-676-LL, A12-676-RR)
Power take off (only small parts listed, like levers)

A71-100-A Power Take Off
Winch
Cargo Wagon Body, 70 x 108"

No Dodge numbers for anything, no indication whether the PTO number given is for dump or winch.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

The manual give some details of how to operate the winch, but no part numbers, serial numbers - zip

(have I mentioned before the manuals and parts lists for the early truck are more decorative than informative?)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's have a look at the last resort, the Master Parts List.

The MPL give the WINCH PTO as A71-100 series, and basically the same Gar Wood info as above in Parts List reprinted.

There is a list of winch parts peculiar to T203 series trucks, but it is a list of parts a page long - no assembly number or overall number. Assuming the Gar Wood numbers are sequential and meaningful (not always the case) the highest level part numbers are all 22Y62xx series numbers, and that includes many of the big parts such as drum, case, worm, and shaft. So you are probably looking for a Gar Wood type 22Y6 winch.

The body info is limited too, just refers to 70" x 108" Cargo Wagon, with an additional page of numbers for the " TYPE C BODY " which might be the dump ??

Back to work.
Gordon, in Scotland

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Ken J
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Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Ken J »

Pages 447 thru 462, right? I'm wondering if the winch PTO assembly had a different shape to allow a lower shaft connection to clear the clutch housing support- I guess the only way I'll ever know is to examine a real one.

The fuel tank is presently hanging on the side of the frame on the driver's side where the spare tire should be (as depicted in the pictures in the front of the MPL). While this is convenient, I'll be moving it to the other side and hanging the spare there. Anyways, there's no fuel filler cut-out, probably due to the fact that someone welded-on about a foot of extra width to both sides of the bed. There really isn't much hope of verifying the bed history, but the evidence suggests a dump add-on.

The winch data plate still in the cab calls for a Gar Wood Model 2U512, 10,000 pound.

I'll try to contact Townwagon Eric, as well.

You've been a tremendous help! If I can get a for-winch PTO, I'll see if I can get a shaft made which can go thru in both directions for both accessories. IF! By the way, when I get the gas pedal fixed, that poor 'ol thing'll move... it tried to the other week, but couldn't in idle.

Best,
-Ken J
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Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Gordon_M »

Well I think you have it all under control there Ken, and at least you know the winch type to look for.

I'd expect the winch shaft just to clear the bellhousing, but not by much, with the PTO giving the required spacing out from the transmission to achieve that.

I suspect you should just look around for VF parts, body, winch, etc. I thought that the altered front grille on the front page might have been shortened, but if you look at the brushguard on the combination winch and dump photo you'll see the brushguard would be several inches shorter because of the way it is mounted higher, so certainly grab that guard.

I can answer specific questions till you get your own manual and parts list, but (unlike the later ones) they really aren't that much use.
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Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Steve Greenberg »

Ken,
The VF in the photo belongs to Steve Preston in Oregon City, Or. I am pretty sure that truck is still for sale.
Happy Holidays,
Steve 8)
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Ken J
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Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Ken J »

THANKS, Gordon! I'll have to calm down and take my time on this one- I blew over $15,000 on the first truck (an almost finished WC-43) in 3 1/2 years. I have a Ben Hur to do, also. The only thing that gets me is it seems like all the parts are disappearing (actually, theu must be as people who don't know what something is will usually throw it in the garbage).

Thanks, Steve!
Ken J
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Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Ken J »

Hey Steve, any idea how to contact the other Steve? Tried a Google to no avail......
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Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Steve Greenberg »

Ken,
Steve Preston steve@sergeantstowing.com
Steve 8)
1942 M3A1 Stuart Light Tank
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Ken J
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Location: Southern California

Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Ken J »

Thanks, Steve, I sent him an email.
Best,
-Ken J
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Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Gordon_M »

Ken, I had another contributor contact me while the forum was down, pointing out some nice Gar Wood brochures on e-pay.

They have some good illustrations of body types, and one or two of the pump drive. I think it was an advert for Gar Wood on Chevrolet chassis.

Gordon
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Ken J
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Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Ken J »

Thanks, Gordon, I'll look again (haven't in a few days).

By the way, how do you exceed bandwidth????
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Re: Which transfer case, PTO, or transmission???

Post by Gordon_M »

I thought the PTO for the winch and dump mechanisms would be different, Ken, but looking at those Gar Wood brochures it appears to be a plain PTO shaft drive and the pump is mounted near the dump cylinder.

If that is the case, then the PTO could be the same? I'm out of my depth here. I originally understood that these PTOs would fit either side of the transmission if there were two access / mounting plates, so I could see a setup with a PTO on one side driving forward for the winch and another on the other side driving back to the hydraulic pump - that might be how it works.
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