Command car, 6 V or 12 V?

[Darrin W]

Did the early WC 3/4 ton command cars have a 6 V electrical system or were they always 12 V electrics?

[Ernie Baals]

Hi
As per all the parts books, all were 12, as well as the carryalls.
Ernie

[Gordon_M]

Taking Command Car production back before the 3/4 tons...

As far back as the VC the Command Car had uprated, shielded electrics for radio use, and this developed all the way through half ton WC production as the need became clearer, so it is unlikely that a 6 volt version of the 3/4 ton Command Car was even considered or prototyped.

Less clear about Carryalls, particularly exactly when they went from 6 v to 12v, but it is likely the 3/4 ton Carryall wasn't even prototyped as a 6 volt as it was the direct replacement / substitute for the WC 42 Radio Panel that was made mostly for Defense Aid export.

There is work to be done on researching prototypes though, anything might turn up. I suspect the sixteen VC prototypes included a plain van as well as the famous forward control / COE VC ambulance, shown here compared with the Montpelier '39 COE van it was based on;

[Fred Coldwell]

Did the early WC 3/4 ton command cars have a 6 V electrical system or were they always 12 V electrics?

Hi Darrin:

All the production model WC 3/4 ton command cars were 12 volts. But I believe the 98" wheelbase pilot model WC 3/4 ton command car was 6 volts, as suggested by the photo below which shows a gas can and carrier where the large 12 volt battery was located on the production models. The absence of a 12 volt battery on the passenger side running board leads me to believe there was a 6 volt battery in the usual position under the hood. The stamped "DODGE" in the hood sides (hard to see in the below photo) and the unusual shaped front fenders identifies this as a pilot model WC 3/4 ton vehicle.

As you may know, the VC and WC 1/2 ton command cars came in both 6 volt models for general use and 12 volt models for radio use. I think the WC 3/4 ton WC-56 & WC-57 command cars initially were designed as 6 volt trucks and the WC-58 was the "special" 12 volt radio model. But before series production began, the QMC decided to make all the WC 3/4 command cars 12 volts, leaving the WC-58 as a superfluous model except for then existing contract purposes. There was only one production contract for the WC-58 because the standard 12 volt models WC-56 & WC-57 were changed to be radio-ready after the first production contracts were signed, so there was no further need for more WC-58 trucks. That explains why there was only one production contract for the WC-58 but additional contracts for the WC-56 & WC-57.

Except for a few small parts identified in TM 10-1530 (and there are differences among those few parts between the May 25, 1942 edition and the Revised October 1, 1942 edition), the WC-56 is identical to the WC-58. Who knows what the small part differences are between the early production model WC-56 and the WC-58?

Merry Christmas to All !

[Gordon_M]

Interesting, thanks again Fred.

It is barely possible that the Command Car pictured had a 12 volt battery under the hood and a small 12 volt generator, but I'll agree it is most likely 6v. Doesn't the double curve on the front fender mean that this was one of the ultra-short 84" wheelbase trucks, or is the double curve misleading me?

We could move the carryall discussion on a bit if we had the matching shot of this LIFE image;

http://www.gwim2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/c.jpg




Obviously a transition trial of the new production half ton Carryall shell on a winch chassis, before they had decided to go the whole hog with cutting down the rear wings ( that's fenders to you lot ) Note that the rear side windows are now factory stamped / cut, unlike the earlier VC6 ones that were hand-formed, and that the rear fenders have the proper 'speed lines' and two-bolt mountings for the fender stay bar.

How many of these things have turned up over the years and have been 'fixed' to standard production models by well-meaning collectors who didn't realise what they had?

[Fred Coldwell]

Interesting, thanks again Fred.

It is barely possible that the Command Car pictured had a 12 volt battery under the hood and a small 12 volt generator, but I'll agree it is most likely 6v. Doesn't the double curve on the front fender mean that this was one of the ultra-short 84" wheelbase trucks, or is the double curve misleading me?

Hi Gordon:

The double curve front fenders were used on all the pilot model WC 3/4 ton trucks: the 84" wheel base (wb) weapon carrier, the 98" wb WC-55 gun motor carrier, weapon carrier and command car, and the 121" wb command car that continued the 121" wb from the WC 1/2 ton command car. After the designers removed the rear flat section on these front fenders in favor of a tighter continuous curve, they gained space at the rear of these front fenders where they often placed a fuel can carrier.

We could move the carryall discussion on a bit if we had the matching shot of this LIFE image;

http://www.gwim2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/c.jpg




Obviously a transition trial of the new production half ton Carryall shell on a winch chassis, before they had decided to go the whole hog with cutting down the rear wings ( that's fenders to you lot ) Note that the rear side windows are now factory stamped / cut, unlike the earlier VC6 ones that were hand-formed, and that the rear fenders have the proper 'speed lines' and two-bolt mountings for the fender stay bar.

How many of these things have turned up over the years and have been 'fixed' to standard production models by well-meaning collectors who didn't realise what they had?

I have never heard of any of the WC 3/4 ton pilot models having been found and don't know what happened to them. I imagine they were left as built and perhaps used at Camp Holabird or at some stateside army bases. WC 3/4 ton pilot model photos have been available since 1969, when Bart Vanderveen's "The Observer's Fighting Vehicle Directory World War II" was first published, so attentive collectors have been aware of them for decades. Many of us have been keeping our eyes peeled, to no avail.

That pilot model WC 1/2 ton carryall is certainly a very stylish truck, striking the right streamlined balance between the fat fender VC and (to my eye) the anemic WC 1/2 ton carryall. Somewhere around my house, too safely tucked away to quickly find, is the LIFE issue in which that carryall photo appeared. From memory it was published in 1941 during the USA's National Defense period preceding our entry into WW II. I imagine that winch-equipped Carryall was too useful not to have been put to a hard life's work lifting and moving things after the war, rather than preserved as an unstoppable people hauler.

[Gordon_M]

I imagine that winch-equipped Carryall was too useful not to have been put to a hard life's work lifting and moving things after the war, rather than preserved as an unstoppable people hauler.

You are probably right Fred. When I saw that image, the second thing I noticed (after the rear fenders) was that it was on ordinary bar tread tyres, when I would have expected earlier directional tread tyres. I suppose it could already have had enough use to need new tyres as it could be a year old.

Gordon

[Ernie Baals]

Hi and merrry christmas Fred and Gordon.
I have seen a front right view of this truck. it has a 1941 manufacturers licience plate.
Somewhere. i remember seeing an early WC1 with VC axels under it. or ,maybe a VC with later sheet metal.
Ernie

[Fred Coldwell]

Hi and Merry Christmas Fred and Gordon. I have seen a front right view of this truck. it has a 1941 manufacturers license plate. Somewhere. i remember seeing an early WC1 with VC axles under it, or maybe a VC with later sheet metal. Ernie

Hi Ernie:

Merry Christmas to you and your Dad! I could not quickly find the second photo of the winch-equipped Carryall, but here is the photo of the WC pilot model with the VC wheels and (I think) VC axles emerging from the primeval swamp. The photo is from the Boniface and Jeudy [French] Dodge Book.

Also shown below is a second photo from the Boniface and Jeudy Dodge Book of the WC-56 pilot model climbing out of the large mud hole at the Chrysler Proving Grounds. The cigar stub behind the steering tells us Frenchy is driving. Enjoy!

[Kaegi]

What is an ultra short 84 inch Wheel base truck? never heard of or seen any pics of one.?? Also that early 1/2 ton carryall pic might be post war as I am not so sure that type of radio antenna was available in 1941? see left front cowl. I have seen that type of antenna before but always assumed they were a fifties add on when someone added a radio.

Interesting, thanks again Fred.

It is barely possible that the Command Car pictured had a 12 volt battery under the hood and a small 12 volt generator, but I'll agree it is most likely 6v. Doesn't the double curve on the front fender mean that this was one of the ultra-short 84" wheelbase trucks, or is the double curve misleading me?

We could move the carryall discussion on a bit if we had the matching shot of this LIFE image;

http://www.gwim2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/c.jpg




Obviously a transition trial of the new production half ton Carryall shell on a winch chassis, before they had decided to go the whole hog with cutting down the rear wings ( that's fenders to you lot ) Note that the rear side windows are now factory stamped / cut, unlike the earlier VC6 ones that were hand-formed, and that the rear fenders have the proper 'speed lines' and two-bolt mountings for the fender stay bar.

How many of these things have turned up over the years and have been 'fixed' to standard production models by well-meaning collectors who didn't realise what they had?

[Gordon_M]

When 3/4 ton work was starting they did some body styles in a range of wheelbase lengths, see Fred's post above. I think 84.5" was the shortest. These trucks often had the double curved front fenders as shown on the Command Car, but as fred points out they weren't exlusive to the very short wheelbase variants.

That photo is 1941 dated and the vehicle was described as a 'runabout' rather than a Carryall.

I have seen that ariel type of WW2 hand held / portable radio sets, so it is likely they just bolted it onto the truck for local use ( airfield ? factory? proving ground? ) rather than as a serious long range communications set.

[Kaegi]

I have seen the proto type 3/4 tons with the unique fenders and that command car without the battery box. Does anyone have a pic of the 84 inch truck? thanks for the info on that antenna style. now if I ever ad one toa 40s dodge I will be period correct.

When 3/4 ton work was starting they did some body styles in a range of wheelbase lengths, see Fred's post above. I think 84.5" was the shortest. These trucks often had the double curved front fenders as shown on the Command Car, but as fred points out they weren't exlusive to the very short wheelbase variants.

That photo is 1941 dated and the vehicle was described as a 'runabout' rather than a Carryall.

I have seen that ariel type of WW2 hand held / portable radio sets, so it is likely they just bolted it onto the truck for local use ( airfield ? factory? proving ground? ) rather than as a serious long range communications set.

[Fred Coldwell]

... Does anyone have a pic of the 84 inch truck? thanks...

Hi Kaegi:

You can thank the late Fred W. Crismon for the below photo. It appears in his excellent book "U.S. Military Wheeled Vehicles" that belongs on the shelf of every serious MV collector. Enjoy.

[Kaegi]

That is Great! learned something new! thanks for sharing. I do need to get that book. I would not have imagined they would think of anything shorter than the 98 inch chassis. you could really
run circles even better around the peeps. lol In all seriousness I find the 98 inch chassis to be the best design for mountanous terrain. no over steer, no understeer, very well balnced offroad performance.



well"]

... Does anyone have a pic of the 84 inch truck? thanks...

Hi Kaegi:

You can thank the late Fred W. Crismon for the below photo. It appears in his excellent book "U.S. Military Wheeled Vehicles" that belongs on the shelf of every serious MV collector. Enjoy.[/quote]